I hate TrueCar

"BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather" (bugeyedacura)
08/19/2014 at 10:49 • Filed to: None

As a person working at an honest dealer trying to do things the right way, I hate TrueCar. Why? Well most salesmen would say they hate it because it removes the profit. I hate it because TrueCar does absolutely 0 work checking in to see if the prices they let dealers advertise is actually true. Many dealerships in my area are actually gaming the system by including rebates that don't actually apply, adding in extra fees after the fact, or by pricing one specific model that way that they know no one will want. And TrueCar just let's it happen. Every time I have a USAA customer or some other buying service customer, they want us to take the extra 1500 off that the next guy is offering. Guess what. He's not actually giving it to you either! But TrueCar says, but TrueCar is a joke.

DISCUSSION (42)

jariten1781 > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
08/19/2014 at 10:56

Last place I bought a car had all their prices advertised with: military, college grad, loyalty, finance & conquest discounts all rolled in. So the only way you could hit their advertised price was if you just graduated college, joined the military, had another Ford, were trading in a Chevy or something, and took Ford financing. Coincidentally they shut down a few months later.

liquid_popcorn > jariten1781
08/19/2014 at 11:01

^^^ This, happens all day every day. It'd be funny if people weren't being misled so badly.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > jariten1781
08/19/2014 at 11:08

That's exactly what our competitors are doing. Except they're rolling those things into their bulk discount on TC. So it looks like they're just giving extra money off when you get there.

N51fanatic > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
08/19/2014 at 11:08

when i sold cars, we called this "breaking their legs": offering the car for a price that CAN NOT be made possible at a competing dealer. The folks after shopping this unrealstic number to a number of competitors would come back to the original dealership where a "rebate suddenly expired" o whatever and there was a new price (always more money). The buyer would be so tired of shopping, they would just buy the car at the increased price.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > N51fanatic
08/19/2014 at 11:13

See, around here, people don't usually shop more than 1 or 2. And the salesmen know it. They'd rather snare a customer and grind them down for 4 hours and meet in the middle. The customers that do come back are often the few that went after taking a day off from shopping and have their energy back. And we still give them the good price. Mainly because ours was true from the get-go.

uofime > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
08/19/2014 at 11:26

how do you feel about customer emailing asking for OTD price on X mode with X options?

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > uofime
08/19/2014 at 11:36

honestly would not give a full out the door price until we had an appointment set if somebody really pressed for it I might give them one using the internet price which is no more information than they could otherwise get on their own

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > uofime
08/19/2014 at 11:45

Plus TrueCar doesn't give OTD price. Just car price. Which most dealerships use by deflating the price and tacking on fees later.

uofime > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
08/19/2014 at 11:47

some dealers seem to feel that way. what's the reasoning behind that?

Mustafaluigi > uofime
08/19/2014 at 11:49

From what I learned working as an engineer, no company, dealership, supplier, manufacture will just give you an out the door price. They all want to sit down and talk with you and figure out what you want, what do you need this for, whether you already know what you want or not. Give me a price so i know whether its worth both our time to sit down and work numbers rarely to never happens. I can have a perfectly set up part number asking for a price on X quantity and lots of companies will spit back asking to talk on the phone to talk about our needs and what not. Its is in this stage that they can try and convince you to step up to that next model and that you need it.

uofime > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
08/19/2014 at 11:50

Oh, I know, that's why I agree that it's pretty useless, hence the quote request emails

GTI MkVII > jariten1781
08/19/2014 at 11:52

I work in automotive retail advertising and we recently had a huge department wide meeting regarding crap like that. The FTC is really going after dealers and agencies running misleading ads. We've never run anything like that, but its vital to know what the FTC is and isn't looking for.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > uofime
08/19/2014 at 12:09

Honestly, it's because customers will burn you so fast. You may go, fight with your manager for 20 minutes, find the perfect car for a customer, put in the time to find that price, and in the end use the price you gave them to go down the street and beat up another dealership to beat your price.

You got nothing, and some other guy just loss the little bit of gross he may have had to work with.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > uofime
08/19/2014 at 12:10

But why get quotes unless you've driven a car? And quotes are just that. Some dealerships still jack up the price when you get there. Plus, there's the factor of where you'd actually like to buy at. If $500 over 5 years is enough to make you go to a bad dealership, then you kind of get what you deserve.

uofime > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
08/19/2014 at 12:12

oh the other hand if you don't give a quote and the guy down the street does then you're out an easy sale.

Damned if you do Damned if you don't I suppose

nermal > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
08/19/2014 at 12:12

I'm curious - are you in "Internet sales" or "regular sales" at your dealer?

Does that make a difference in how these shoppers are handled?

uofime > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
08/19/2014 at 12:20

Lets assume the customer has done their homework, test driven the cars they're interested in (across multiple brands) and knows what they are willing to pay. All they want is to walk into the dealer, sign the paper work and drive off with their new car. At the point you've got multiple quotes if a dealer doesn't stick to their word you just go to the next one.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > uofime
08/19/2014 at 13:14

And you're out an easy sale if he calls you first and one of the other dealerships quotes him a lower price after you.

There is no winning until somebody comes through the door.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > uofime
08/19/2014 at 13:21

Most people lose their will to walk away after they get into the dealership. They want to stay and fight for what they think they deserve. If they didn't, my dealership would be the only one selling cars in this area.

thebigbossyboss > jariten1781
08/19/2014 at 16:02

I did that once.

Firewrx234 > uofime
08/20/2014 at 22:03

At my dealership that I work with, we don't like to do this because as soon as we do that, they have no need to come in and can use our price to buy a vehicle elsewhere. They will have no loyalty to us if we just give the otd price. Also it doesn't give our business manager a chance to sell any warranties or protections.

That's the skinny of it.

BenLikesCars > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
08/24/2014 at 02:55

When we got my wife's car three years ago, we went into the dealership with paper showing what USAA would charge for the car. The dealership got nice and close to the USAA price and voila, we had a deal.

Similar thing happened earlier this year, I looked stuff up on carsdirect.com, chose several finalists, found out who had what in stock, and told them, "Hey, this is the carsdirect price, see how close you can come to that, okay?" And it worked.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > BenLikesCars
08/24/2014 at 10:41

That's how its supposed to work. Unfortunately, most dealerships in my area game that system. My dealership would do exactly what you just described because we use a real price for TrueCar, not a bunch of fake "impending" bonuses to take the price down.

Also be careful because there's a lot of dealerships that will pad the car with extra fees to keep the sale price down. Keep an eye on that OTD

PRuby > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
06/13/2015 at 16:01

Everyone is forgetting one VERY important aspect of why True Car hurts customers, dealerships AND salesmen alike. I’ll explain this by sharing my True Car experience as a new car salesman. First we all need to realize that the profit margin on new cars is much less than in used cars. Dealerships make most of their money from their service and parts departments. A small percentage actually comes from the initial sale of the car. next we need to realize that a car salesman is paid based upon “gross profit” on each deal. When a True Car customer walks in, guess what I do? I run!! I run for the hills!! Why? because I know my chances at making anything more than a “$75 mini” commission is about 10%. I also know that that customer may very well be foolish enough to believe he/she can negotiate or find a lower price and that they may have 0 intention of doing business that day. I also know if that customer leaves the dealership after I have invested my time in him/her, that there is a 95% chance they will not come back to purchase a car. And finally I know how much time I am going to waste on them. Figure in 45 minutes for proper vehicle demonstration, 15 more minutes to discuss trims, 1 hour of negotiation (even though they came in with the lowest price) So that’s a minimum of 2 hours without making a dime.

If they do purchase it will be another 2 to 3 hours to get them through all the paperwork and finance department. And finally I have to figure in the fact that I will spend 1 to 2 hours before AND after that customer trying to get another customer. So it becomes a total of 7 hours (give or take an hour) invested toward this customer. My commission for this True Car customer?? $0-$75...............

What does this mean? It means I and other salesmen don’t even want to deal with you!! it means you are not worth my time!! It means that even if I sold 20 cars a month to True Car customers (which is more cars than 90% of salesmen sell in a month) That I still won’t be able to pay half of my bills. So it is simple. If I get stuck with you, I am going to cut corners in the process, I am going to give you the least amount of my time possible, and when I ask you if your doing business today and you say “probably not” or “no” I am going to find a way to get rid of you rather than serve you. Most new car salesmen get commission only. No salary included!!! The average salesman sells 8-12 cars per month. If they were all True Car customers he would make $600 to $900 dollars for the whole month!! Would you work a 55 hour work week for that? I won’t!! I have kids to feed!! My rent is more than that!!

True car gets around an average of $400 for every car sold through them. And they really don’t have a lot of overhead. The Dealership gets a kick back from the manufacturer that is usually around $750 as a safety net if they don’t make a certain profit. (out of that they have to pay porters, sales managers, secretaries , building expenses, fuel, and a big list of other things. So it isn’t much.

I do not have a problem with someone getting a good deal on a car. I think an average of $2000 gross for the dealership on average is fair. That would pay most salesmen $300 for their time. At 8-12 cars per month average in the US it would mean a $2400 to $3,600 a month income for a sales rep. That is a livable income in most rural areas. THAT is FAIR business.

So to True Car and all the mooches that use them and THINK you are benefiting:

All you are doing is destroying a legitimate industry, kicking honest salesmen out of their homes, and depriving their kid’s of college. And if the morale implications there do not offend you or make you rethink your position (which would make you inhuman and definitely you “unAmerican”) Think about this: You are trading in the benefit of having an expert who goes to school yearly to learn about his product (as it changes yearly) to help you find the best vehicle for you and your family. By losing this benefit you really do not know what you are getting in a vehicle (and don’t think the internet sites have half the knowledge a trained sales rep does because they don’t) You may actually lose money by getting a lot of equipment you donrt want or need. Or you may end up with a payment on a car you grow to hate because it wasn’t what you thought it would be. You risk all of this for a monthly savings of less than $100. So have fun!!

PRuby > jariten1781
06/13/2015 at 16:09

True Car and internet competition have forced dealerships to “stretch the truth” on their advertising. One deal now yields VERY little profit and so we must work in volume. This is bad for customers because it drops the value of service. When one dealership drags in customers with this type of advertising, it forces all of us to do it or go out of business. It isn’t fair but it is what unfair advertising like True Car and e-Pricing causes.

PRuby > liquid_popcorn
06/13/2015 at 16:10

People mislead themselves. if it sounds to good to be true, it probably is. $3000 under MSRP?? Does it sound to good to be true??

PRuby > N51fanatic
06/13/2015 at 16:11

I refuse to do that. Although I should....... I just refuse to offer the customer any discount at all. I tell them to come back when they are done shopping and I will beat the lowest price they can show me. (not tell me, but show me)

PRuby > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
06/13/2015 at 16:13

Buddy you are full of it. no salesman wants to waste hours with a customer. We want to cut a deal and move on to the next customer. Each extra hour I spend with you is an hour that could have been used to make extra money with another customer. Customers make the process long with unrealistic expectations given by scams like True car.

PRuby > uofime
06/13/2015 at 16:14

I refuse to give it to them. I won’t waste my time with a window shopper. I have bills to pay just like them and I live and die by the sale.

PRuby > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
06/13/2015 at 16:15

Can you blame the dealership? True car quotes prices below invoice quite often. In other words they are prices no dealership can offer.

PRuby > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
06/13/2015 at 16:16

Amen brother!!!!

PRuby > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
06/13/2015 at 16:17

You would be surprised how many people are really that cheap. And with immigration rates skyrocketing, it is getting worse.

PRuby > uofime
06/13/2015 at 16:18

Not really. The guy will give a quote but because he didn’t the customer still needs to go somewhere to compare it. A lot of times they will go back to the original dealer who refused to quote them. Rule of thumb: The last dealership to quote ALWAYS gets the business.

PRuby > uofime
06/13/2015 at 16:20

Now those are the Internet customers I actually do not mind. If they wanna stick me with a low profit and low commission deal, that is fine. Just don’t try to waste my time trying to negotiate beyond that. Allow me to get you in and get you out.

PRuby > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
06/13/2015 at 16:21

You must not be from Chicago my friend. These cab drivers will walk in a second. And if they are a True car customer, I make absolutely 0 effort to stop them.

PRuby > BenLikesCars
06/13/2015 at 16:23

Of course it did. You weren’t unrealistic. You knew you had the best price and they knew it to. So why waste time if they already have a deal on the table. I would have done the same. Get you in with your low profit deal and get you out quickly. Then it doesn’t hurt so bad.

PRuby > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
06/13/2015 at 16:25

I will pad with fee’s if I know the true car quote they have with the dealership down the street is impossible or below invoice. After 6 years in this business you know when the True Car price is a lie or not.

BenLikesCars > PRuby
06/13/2015 at 20:14

Exactly, x amount of money earned in a short amount of time. When the last car purchase’s salesguy came within $300 of the carsdirect price, it was handshake time, smiles all around.

I think discussion on the price was probably under ten to fifteen minutes, including his walk to the manager’s office. (Then half hour for test-drive, and ??? for the paperwork afterwards.)

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > PRuby
06/13/2015 at 21:25

8-12 cars only pays you 3 grand? Man, you need a dealership with a better pay plan.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > PRuby
06/13/2015 at 22:21

You do realise that the individual TrueCar customer certificates that your customer brings you are with a price your internet manager sets right? If you’re talking about the page where they show the average purchases made on that car in the last whatever days, I’ve never seen one below invoice when the cars are equipped the same, barring a major incentive swing from month to month.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > PRuby
06/13/2015 at 22:23

I work in the Northern Virginia/DC area. Its one of the most competitive markets on the east coast. From all the replies you’ve left, it sounds like your dealership isn’t properly incetivize you guys to make customers out of prospects. If you don’t mind me asking, what brand do you sell?

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > PRuby
06/13/2015 at 22:27

Shit man. The way some of these dealerships price the cars, I could tell in 6 months which ones were BS.